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Amy
Administrator

Registered: Nov 2001
Location:
Posts: 235

theef, free free to repost your

"speculation" topic.

1. I've told Dev, OBH and I'll say it to everyone else, since I apparently wasn't clear yesterday. Any and all links to unverified spoilers will be deleted. If you have spoilers you would like to discuss here, you send them to me for review before posting. If that is too hard for people, find another board.

2. I wouldn't have deleted your thread, merely the offending posts, but it took 25 minutes to delete SOME of the posts, and I don't know about you all, but I HAVE a job, and I'd like to go to work :)

3. And for those wondering, and PMing me about it, yes, I've had "discussions" with Unbound about not posting spoilers here. In fact, I was, I thought, very clear with him that all spoilers were to be cleared for posting. And, no, I don't believe I've cleared any of his spoilers for posting in the last 3 months. Just for those keeping score in the pi*&ing match between the two sides of this board--which have I mentioned that pi*&ing match is really old and needs to stop?

4. Guys, I'm honestly *begging* you here. Please stop the snarkiness. I don't like coming here. Other's don't like coming here. There's been like NO good discussion the last few weeks, since Providence and that's NOT what these boards should be. I'm sickened every time I come here, and I hate to come here, and I hate waking up in the morning to an in box full of "reported" threads from various folders and then going to bed to an inbox and PM full of messages telling me of "grievenances" of other parties. I feel like I'm a very unperpaid babysitter and it's really not what I want to be doing with my life or my time. I'm sure you've all noticed I'm not invested in the show anymore--the same holds true for these boards. Maybe if I loved the show still, that love would seep into these boards, but it hasn't and it won't since it doesn't exist.

I have a big project due in an hour, but I had to deal with this, becuase I can't quantify how down these boards have made me for the last two years. I know you all feel that the boards aren't suiting your needs and that no one here is giving you what you want---and I am sorry for that. But can you imagine being me, for just one second, being someone who reads each and every one of those snarky emails as her personal failure. Someone who five years ago started this site, and loved this site and these boards, and is now totally sickened by them (not of them, but by them) and sees this thing she worked so hard on literally crumble.

I know how pathetic it sounds but this site was my life for almost 5 yrs. When things would go bad in real life, I always knew I had a place to go where I felt useful, accepted and could express my thoughts, feelings and creativity. I know I can't have that back, but I do mourn it, and it does hurt. Very. Very. Much.

I don't know what else to say, I need to freaking dry my eyes and get to work (I'm going to be late, but once I started this I couldn't stop---and maybe I'm so emmotional due to lack of sleep since I was @ work until 9:00 Mon and Tues, but I'm begging you guys to please, if you can't try and get along, please leave the boards. While it hurts me to ask that, it hurts worse to see what these boards have become.

Amy

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Old Post 03-20-2002 12:30 PM
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lj1958
Loyal Opposition

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: the uncharted territories
Posts: 1074

Oh, Amy....(sighs)....

Chill, girl. When I feel this way, I know I need to go out and get some exercise!

I hope your big project is going/went well.

quote:
I know how pathetic it sounds but this site was my life for almost 5 yrs. When things would go bad in real life, I always knew I had a place to go where I felt useful, accepted and could express my thoughts, feelings and creativity. I know I can't have that back, but I do mourn it, and it does hurt.


Yes, the truth is that things have changed, and we can't have back what once was, at least in the context of XF. Fandom does go on -- witness Dr. Who and Star Trek Original and TNG....but things CHANGE.

XF has always been a somewhat divided and divisive fan community, only now it's a divided and divisive fan community where basically no one is positive about the series at this point. And, when you're still at the center of all that, it's understandable that it affects you emotionally. But, hey, try not to take it so personally. Lots of people in the fan world respect you immensely -- even many of those who don't agree with your shipper views. And they respect all that you've put into this site. You've made such a large contribution to the online fan community, and you can be proud of what you have done.

But when it all comes down to it (and, LOL, I'm having a William-Shatner-on-SNL moment here)...it's just a TV show (albeit one that we all loved). When we try to make it more then it can be or should be in our lives, ultimately we come to a point of reckoning where we have to deal with it. Hopefully, since I'm saying that as part of fandom, you won't get insulted by me saying that. BTDT myself, and pulling away and getting some emotional distance is...difficult. But it has to be done sometime.

I don't know what stage of "mourning" you qualify for at this point, but it DOES get better over time. I think that you're not quite over the bump that a lot of us have gotten over in the last couple of years. But you will get there!

-Liz (lj1958)

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Old Post 03-20-2002 01:18 PM
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DeeDee
PPP of the OWMS

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3136

Amy, I'm sorry that most of the feedback that you have been getting is negative. I guess that, as in most things, people only feel the need to write about what they feel is wrong and not about what is right.

This is still the first place that I come to when I need to get away from real life for a while. It is the place that I come to when I am sad and need cheering. It is the place that I come to when I am happy and need someone to share it with. What happened on September 11 is a perfect example. When we needed support and someone to listen this is the place that we turned to. The concern and love that we got from each other was amazing. I don't know how many of us would have gotten through that day or that week without the Haven.

Don't ever doubt what you have accomplished. The WNP is the first place that I check for X-Files news because I know that it will be truthful and accurate. And whether the news is good or bad this is where I want to come to discuss it. The general frustration with the show is starting to wear on people and unfortunately that is affecting the mood of the board but as my grandma used to say "This too shall pass". I have gotten to know some really wonderful people because of the Haven boards both virtually and in real life.

Hang in there Amy. Things will get better.

DeeDee

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Old Post 03-20-2002 01:52 PM
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Theef
Police State Detainee

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Cell Block "E"
Posts: 4399

Does this mean that the spoilers in question have been verified to your satisfaction?I don't want to cause any problems-really.I have alot of ideas to throw out there speculation wise-so the more info that is deemed legit is GREAT news to me.


Thanks Amy for your hard work-and I will try harder to lower my level of snarkiness (TRY!!!!).

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Old Post 03-20-2002 02:30 PM
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xray
Junior Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: The little red dot on the Map!!
Posts: 1

Post

Hey Amy!
thanks for taking some time to post this message...I can totally imagine what kinda stress you are under. I hope all's well with ur project!! I'm sure it upsets everyone and me to read the posts with everyone's relationship so strained even when they don't know each other...but as a foreign fan, I'd just like to say thank you for everything...the board, the site and the various info. I myself, honestly, have lost interest in the show since DD left, however, with him coming back, I see a glimpse of hope.. So Amy and all the X-files fan out there, I hope we all can enjoy the rest of the remaining episodes together. It's a wonderful thing that everyone is brought here to this board by the same love for the same show, so cherish it while we can. it's hard to find x-files fans in where i live, so reading you guys' posts is such an enojoyment for me, hope that we can continue to have fun till the end of the show....CheeRs~

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Old Post 03-20-2002 02:32 PM
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Unbound I
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 5500

Re: theef, free free to repost your

Amy, I think all of us are sorry for any part we've played in adding to your frustration and discontent with these boards. It's too bad you don't find them to be as enjoyable place as so many of us do -- most of the time anyway. You've been kind enough to create a "Haven" for all of us and I think it's safe to say we're all appreciative of everything you've done to welcome us all here.

I've apologized to you privately if there have been instances where I've slipped and not followed your guidelines, but I will do so now publicly. It's your site and we need to respect your wishes. I've always tried to do that, but I'm not perfect nor is anyone else. We all make mistakes and screw up, but hopefully the mistakes don't detract from the enjoyment we (and you) get from this place.

The key issue here, I believe is fairness. The biggest complaint I hear about the Haven lately is there are two rules in place: One for most people and another for people the moderators like. That's the biggest perception that I've been asked about and I think it was at the root of the discourse in Theef's thread yesterday. Right or wrong, that perception is out there and the only way to eliminate it is to make sure there's a level playing field and everyone is subject to the same rules whether they are friends with certain people or not. The best way to avoid problems is to enforce the rules fairly and evenly.

Hey I kinda felt like I was a moderator again there for a second and I'll bet that scared the hell out of a few of ya

For what it's worth, I do think there have been some good discussions in here lately. I think Sean's thread about "all things" generated some healthy debate and so did the discussion about "Hollywood A.D." I'm sure you're frustrated and I can appreciate that, but maybe it you look a little closer, you might see some things here that remind you of the place you once loved. They are here. I know because I've seen them.

Now I'm off to Vegas. I doubt fandom will suddenly unite while I'm away and I'm certainly not a big enough gambler to lay odds on that occurring but I agree with Amy, it would be nice if we could have some peace here as we head into the stretch drive of the show. I don't know about you guys, but I think that'd be pretty cool.

Unbound I

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:03 PM
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ikkleOsu
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2329

Well you know what? Fine, find a moderator you think is fair and just, because obviously everyone feels it's not me. So i am done.

I am done with being the one everyone blames, for letting Dd fans get away with anything, for letting RP fans get away with everything, for being the "posion" that is ruining these boards, for daring to have friends.


Someone else can be the fall guy I have had enough.

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:23 PM
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bcfan
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: bc
Posts: 310

quote:
Originally posted by ikkleOsu
Someone else can be the fall guy I have had enough.


ikkle, I know that I'm a relatively new poster on this board, so my opinion doesn't carry the weight of Unbound, but I've tried to publically show my support for your moderation activities. Someone has to be the level-headed one and, imo, you are that person...and I'm sure that there are many others out there who also support you!

Please, take a deep breath, brew a cup of sleepytime tea, put your feet up - just don't give up on us. You've done a great job.

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:31 PM
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Vicki
GANut

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 3471

quote:
Originally posted by ikkleOsu
Well you know what? Fine, find a moderator you think is fair and just, because obviously everyone feels it's not me. So i am done.

I am done with being the one everyone blames, for letting Dd fans get away with anything, for letting RP fans get away with everything, for being the "posion" that is ruining these boards, for daring to have friends.


Someone else can be the fall guy I have had enough.



Ikkle, I am very sadden by this :(

NO, everyone DOES NOT feel the way Unbound has expressed.

You have always been a fair and impartial moderator to all likes of this board, to bad some can not see that.

You NEVER HAVE BEEN a "poison" to this community, it has NEVER been you ruining things, I am sorry you have been made a scapegoat in this.
You have been a VERY strong assest to this community for what 2yrs now, I am sad to see it end like this :(

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:33 PM
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Barb
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 1321

quote:
Originally posted by ikkleOsu
Well you know what? Fine, find a moderator you think is fair and just, because obviously everyone feels it's not me. So i am done.

I am done with being the one everyone blames, for letting Dd fans get away with anything, for letting RP fans get away with everything, for being the "posion" that is ruining these boards, for daring to have friends.


Someone else can be the fall guy I have had enough.



I can't express how much this saddens me!

It's been difficult to be around these boards for the last 2 seasons. But I've hung around because I've reluctantly still been watching, but *MAINLY* because of some really wonderful posters/friends I've had the opportunity to connect up. ikkle being one of them. She moderates the best she can in what I would describe as shark infested waters(and that is putting it mildly!). Frankly there was no way she could EVER have won the war in moderatiing this forum the past two seasons.

Again, this saddens me more than anything, and I'll probably sink into lurkerdom for the most part, surfacing when it feels right, or I see some old friends. It's just not fun anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. I'll watch the series til the end, it's been a great ride for the series, and for me as well since I've had the opportunity to chat with some really great people.

Barb

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:41 PM
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D-GenerationX
the tyranny of evil men

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Time And Relative Dimensions In Space
Posts: 1682

This is going to sound cooky, but I actually think we do a decent job of policing ourselves. There is another board I go to for "ER" and it was destroyed 2 days ago. I'm not talking a snark overload or some silly melodrama. I'm talking the damn site had to be shut down. In what was clearly an organized attack, a group of trolls somehow got the abilities to do what the mods do (edit posts, close and move threads, etc) In a few hours time the board was so riddled with profanity and disruption, the board shut down. It went back up but they are essentially starting from scratch. I feel so bad for the moderator who like all moderators, works damn hard on her board.

Getting back to this thread though, I found Unbound's post very candid and very honest. He's right, that perception is out there. I've suggested it myself, on numerous occasions. I've even accused Unbound!! Yet he steps up and says while he may not totally agree, he understands that perception is out there and it ain't helping ANYBODY. He's damn right. That's the difference between this place and the board I described above. As much as we all disagree and are at each other throats from time to time, we're still a community, dysfunctional as we may be.

I know we all care about the success of this site. We come here every damn day. We are pretty lucky with trolls here but when we do get them, everyone comes out of the woodwork to chase them away. Its times like that the petty differences between us don't matter. I think something like that shows the charachter of this group more than anything else.

Oh yeah, and guys, don't e-mail Amy with your gripes you've spent the afternoon arguing. She's not a sherriff. Fight you own battles and just realize that sometimes, you lose.


Sean

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Jerry : "The hospital was given a grant for genetic research, so what?"
Kramer : "Pigman Jerry, pigman. I'm talking about a half pig, half man!!"
Elaine : "You think the hospital got a grant to make a pigman?"
Kramer : "Sure, the government has known about pigman for 50 years!"
George : "I wish there were pigmen. All of the sudden I don't look so bad."
Jerry : "You think the pigmen would open things up for you?"
George : "If you were setting me up you could say at least he's no pigman."
Jerry : "I think I see your point. What do you think Elaine?"
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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:45 PM
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Unbound I
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 5500

Ikkle, I doubt what I have to say means a whole lot to you, but nonetheless I don't think you should resign and that certainly wasn't the intent of my post. I never said you were a "poison" to these boards. There was a time you and I worked hand-in-hand to do what we could to make this an enjoyable place for everyone. I haven't forgotten those days.

In her initial post, Amy talked about how some people don't like coming here anymore. All I did was expand upon her point by mentioning one example I was personally aware of. If the perception I mentioned is inaccurate, then work to fix it. These are our boards too Ikkle and we will work with you if you let us. We can all work together to make this place a great one the remainder of this season. That is what I was trying to say with my post and I apologize if the message somehow got contorted.

Like I said before, I don't want you to resign and I hope you don't.

Unbound I

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:46 PM
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Unbound I
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 5500

[QUOTE]Originally posted by D-GenerationX
Getting back to this thread though, I found Unbound's post very candid and very honest. He's right, that perception is out there. I've suggested it myself, on numerous occasions. I've even accused Unbound!! Yet he steps up and says while he may not totally agree, he understands that perception is out there and it ain't helping ANYBODY. He's damn right.

Thanks Sean. I appreciate the fact you put aside our past differences and saw the point I was trying to make. Much appreciated.

Unbound I

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:48 PM
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D-GenerationX
the tyranny of evil men

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Time And Relative Dimensions In Space
Posts: 1682

Well thank you Unbound.


Sean

__________________
Kramer : "Look at this, Jerry. It's right here in the paper."
Jerry : "The hospital was given a grant for genetic research, so what?"
Kramer : "Pigman Jerry, pigman. I'm talking about a half pig, half man!!"
Elaine : "You think the hospital got a grant to make a pigman?"
Kramer : "Sure, the government has known about pigman for 50 years!"
George : "I wish there were pigmen. All of the sudden I don't look so bad."
Jerry : "You think the pigmen would open things up for you?"
George : "If you were setting me up you could say at least he's no pigman."
Jerry : "I think I see your point. What do you think Elaine?"
Elaine : "I think I have to get going, but could you do me a favor? Could you *write down* the rest of the 'Pigmen and the Women Who Love Them' discussion because I would LOVE to hear the rest of it."

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:57 PM
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Vicki
GANut

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 3471

quote:
Originally posted by Unbound I

In her initial post, Amy talked about how some people don't like coming here anymore. All I did was expand upon her point by mentioning one example I was personally aware of. If the perception I mentioned is inaccurate, then work to fix it. These are our boards too Ikkle and we will work with you if you let us. We can all work together to make this place a great one the remainder of this season. That is what I was trying to say with my post and I apologize if the message somehow got contorted.
Unbound I



What I see here is you pointing a finger at Ikkle.
That she is to blame for this crap, she's not to blame we all our. Ikkle has tried several times to, as you say "work to fix it", nothing is ever good enough for some and I am assuming nothing will be expect for her to resign as moderator.

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Old Post 03-20-2002 03:59 PM
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UCFGuardgirl
Writer Extraordinaire

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Orlando
Posts: 720

Ikkle, if it makes you feel any better, please know that there are people out there who support you. I know that I have (at times) felt that there was a double standard around here, but not because you were doing a bad job. More than anything else, it's the fault of posters who don't take the time to think before they post something hurtful or innapropriate. Please don't leave because there are a few bad eggs. I can think of a lot of good things (for you and for Amy.

Here. I'll list them.

1: Nsst and her pics. Pictures of the day, pictures to express a thought. Lots of yummy pics of David. Sometimes I laugh out loud when she posts one.

2: Ikkle--your thread about The X Files and religion. What a great discussion. So many thoughtful posts in that one.

3: Bama, and her positive approach to some of the Season 9 episodes. Even when I don't always agree, I feel a little better after reading the posts. Sometimes, episodes aren't really as bad as we first perceive them.

4: The thread about what your favorite "truth" line of dialogue was, in honor of the last episode entitled "the truth." I'm still wondering exactly how many times this show has used the word "truth." lol.

5: Every single "mythology" thread, where we come together to spin theories. Playing off and getting ideas from sharing with a diversity of people is why we come here.

6: Unbound's reviews. (And the other posters who post reviews.) I may not always agree, but I enjoy reading them.

7: Your favorite moment, favorite line, favorite humor episode, favorite angst episode thread.

8: Shakerbaker's countdown to Mulder. Come on, we know we're all excited regardless of what else is going on. Perhaps our love of the current season wanes, but our love for Mulder and Scully will always be there.

9: The fanfic board. Hands down, one of the most positive, productive boards I've ever been to. When I was having problems while writing "How I Slept..." (my computer/word program broke completely) some of the gals on the board offered to help me out, have me email them the chapter so they could post it for me, and some offered technical advice. Inya's emailed me episode transcripts before, and there's always cyber cookies about. Amy, if nothing else, know that many people have made friends from coming to these boards.

10: Finding that one good thread, that one good post, that one poster who you feel you've connected with. Making friends through these boards has helped me get through a lot of tough times. When David Duchovny announced his return to the show, where do you think I came first? I came here. And out through the disappointment (of season nine) came this outpouring of excitement and positive energy. And suddenly we were transformed into the giddy fans we were before. Nobody in my apartment understood why I was so happy--but you guys DO understand.

Perhaps we can harness some of that energy, release the positivity back onto the boards. There are only what? 10 episodes left? We can do this. We can find that one good thread, that one good post. We can think before we leap. We can act like adults. We can debate and discuss and share ideas without killing each other. And we can celebrate years of our favorite show, not mourn one or two not-so-great seasons. I mean, think about it. Doesn't the good outweigh the bad?

Please don't be sad, Amy. Maybe it's kind of like writing fanfic. I got a nasty email a few months ago regarding a story I wrote, and the one nasty email really upset me, really affected me much more than the positive ones I had received that same day. But then the next day, I got a long, wonderful email from a reader who said that my story had touched her. That I had helped her get through a terrible ordeal. She was but one person, but my story managed to reach her. And that made it worth it for me.

So just know that I am but one person, but these boards have touched me. I wouldn't still come here if I didn't enjoy coming here. If nothing else, Amy (and Ikkle, too--don't think I'm letting you off the hook here ) know that your efforts and hard work have made these boards one of the highlights of my XF watching (and, in a way, my RL as well.)

In short, thank you. I'm still a loyal poster.

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***********************
Doggett shakes his head sadly, because this is the week the writers decided to throw the romantic pairing of Doggett and Moronica at the wall to see if it would stick. Despite the fact that they've got no romantic chemistry. They've got anti-chemistry. This pairing is actually physically repelling viewers. I'm six feet further away from my television than I was when this episode started. By the time it's over, I have the feeling that I'll be sitting in my car.
---> Jessica, Television Without Pity

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:01 PM
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Philea@Heart
Free Philer

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 252

This is so sad guys....I never thought it would come to this. I've said it before and will say it again if it not for Amy we would have NO Haven. Is it so difficult to abide by the few rules there are here? And Ikkle resigning is too much. I'm sure most would agree that she is one of the best moderators around. (And fairest) Regardless of who you are. I have had my hand slapped and I didn't take it to heart, why does everyone else? Pretty sonn guys ther will be no Haven and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

Amy, Thank You for creating this wonderful place. It has been a comfort for me to come here and I will do anything to keep it. I'm sure there are many others that agree.

Jaci

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:07 PM
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mel_ladi
Original DDEBer

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Madras, Oregon, USA
Posts: 65

clear to me

Ikkle, it was clear to me that Unbound was talking about perceptions not reality. I have several times publically supported you and *I* for one have never seen you being unreasonable.

There may be poison on this board but it isn't you (or Unbound or Theef or AllthingsMSR or Sean or Dev etc. for that matter). I have my own opinions about who the troublemakers are, but I am sure we all do!

The point of this post is, you moderate with grace and humor, and I feel the knight in white armor has arrived when I see your posts.

mel, who lurks here every day and thinks Ikkle is the bees-knees.

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:08 PM
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Konrad Frye
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 1379

quote:
Originally posted by ikkleOsu
Well you know what? Fine, find a moderator you think is fair and just, because obviously everyone feels it's not me. So i am done.



I can't think of a single person capable of handling this thankless job as well as you. Please don't let a small, vocal minority dictate policy. If they don't like the way things are being run, *they* can leave.

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:12 PM
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Theef
Police State Detainee

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Cell Block "E"
Posts: 4399

Personally I think ikkle does a great job.She certainly has more patience and understanding then I would in the same situation.As for as the issues surrounding this board-I think there is a bunch of WHINING going on,and it makes me want to puke.All this crying to Amy crap is a disgrace.Is this board THAT important,that you have to disrupt a person's life to complain?I appreciate all that Amy has done to provide this forum-but come on people,it's JUST entertainment!!!!Show some restraint and act like an adult.If you don't like a poster-ignore them,if you don't like a thread-exit and don't return-if you feel like you're going to burst-turn your computer off and go for a walk.I also think some perspective is in order.This place is cliquish.People here are in roving bands that stick to together.Find a group you "fit in" with-and be done with it.No one is going to change anyone's mind here.Roll with the punches-and laugh it off if things get hairy.That's what I do.

__________________
"Something bad is good for something"-Detroit Red Wings goaltender Dominik (the Dominator) Hasek

"You're going to miss every shot you don't take"-Memphis Grizzlies point guard Jason Williams

"I want you to leave John,and never come back here"-Dana Scully

"You know Rocky,I'm a mother"-Scullybot

"You are close, but your answer is not totally right. I will not verbally attack you for not agreeing with me, I will come and bite you on the ass with my big pointy teeth and sell you and your children into slavery. But don't let that stop you from disagreeing with me." -? (I think we all know! :)

"It's from an alien spacecraft, If you can wrap your brain around that Agent Doggett".-Dana Scully to resident "genius" John Doggett

*In memory of Phanty's post*

"As far as what comes to pass, well that's part of the fun of spoilers. And really, that's all we're talking about here -- just some spoilers. Some might be right, some might be wrong. In the end, so what? We'll all get to see the episodes and that's where the true fun resides".-Unbound I


Do you like to laugh?Take a gander:
http://www.geocities.com/lauracapo2000/


"You know, Sean, perhaps the "puking" could have been done more artistically or in a different way, but other than that, what was bad about the episode"?-Guy

"All the Jedi die in Episode III during the Clone Wars," Jackson told The Sun. "I told George (Lucas) I didn't mind dying, I just didn't want to go out like some punk".-Samuel L. Jackson



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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:14 PM
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Unbound I
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 5500

quote:
Originally posted by Vicki


What I see here is you pointing a finger at Ikkle.
That she is to blame for this crap, she's not to blame we all our. Ikkle has tried several times to, as you say "work to fix it", nothing is ever good enough for some and I am assuming nothing will be expect for her to resign as moderator.



I truly hope she doesn't do that. I don't believe that will solve anything. I agree, we all share a responsibility in what has transpired on these boards of late. When I was a moderator, I was probably too lax with some things. I made some mistakes and I'm willing to admit that. People pointed fingers at me too Vicki, and if I'm not mistaken yours was sometimes one of them.

I am not blaming Ikkle. I am talking about a perception that exists about the Haven, a perception Sean agrees with as well. There are reasons why people don't want to come here. We know that. Whatever problems exist here are ones a whole lot of people share responsibility for, myself included. All I'm trying to say is that we are a community, we can work together to make this a more enjoyable place the remainder of the season.

Will this be Nirvana? I doubt it. But it can be a wonderful place for everyone to come and hang out. However, I really think the first step to making this a better place is understanding what the problems are and trying to correct them. Amy has pointed out the p****g battle that's been going on for awhile and that's one that should easily have been stopped by now. I think most of us are intelligent enough to understand why things have gotten somewhat bitter of late. And if we're smart enough to see the problems, it should be pretty darn easy to avoid them in the future.

That's really all I'm trying to say.

Unbound I

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:14 PM
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Swonky
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 26

Re: Re: theef, free free to repost your

quote:
Originally posted by Unbound I
Amy, I think all of us are sorry for any part we've played in adding to your frustration and discontent with these boards. It's too bad you don't find them to be as enjoyable place as so many of us do -- most of the time anyway. You've been kind enough to create a "Haven" for all of us and I think it's safe to say we're all appreciative of everything you've done to welcome us all here.

I've apologized to you privately if there have been instances where I've slipped and not followed your guidelines, but I will do so now publicly. It's your site and we need to respect your wishes. I've always tried to do that, but I'm not perfect nor is anyone else. We all make mistakes and screw up, but hopefully the mistakes don't detract from the enjoyment we (and you) get from this place.

The key issue here, I believe is fairness. The biggest complaint I hear about the Haven lately is there are two rules in place: One for most people and another for people the moderators like. That's the biggest perception that I've been asked about and I think it was at the root of the discourse in Theef's thread yesterday. Right or wrong, that perception is out there and the only way to eliminate it is to make sure there's a level playing field and everyone is subject to the same rules whether they are friends with certain people or not. The best way to avoid problems is to enforce the rules fairly and evenly.

Hey I kinda felt like I was a moderator again there for a second and I'll bet that scared the hell out of a few of ya

For what it's worth, I do think there have been some good discussions in here lately. I think Sean's thread about "all things" generated some healthy debate and so did the discussion about "Hollywood A.D." I'm sure you're frustrated and I can appreciate that, but maybe it you look a little closer, you might see some things here that remind you of the place you once loved. They are here. I know because I've seen them.

Now I'm off to Vegas. I doubt fandom will suddenly unite while I'm away and I'm certainly not a big enough gambler to lay odds on that occurring but I agree with Amy, it would be nice if we could have some peace here as we head into the stretch drive of the show. I don't know about you guys, but I think that'd be pretty cool.

Unbound I



Right, the complete hypocrisy of your post is making me fume right now. You think Ikkle is biased ? That she should work on fixing that ? What an arrogant and sanctimonious thing to say.

Does the name Stacteasy mean anything to you ? Your friend you give the 'bat single' too every time anyone dares take your name in vain ? That bastian of sanity and rationality ? The one who isn't even an XF fan ? When you were modator you never once stepped in and asked her to delete her blatant poster bashing and frankly scarey posts. I was never going to bring this up in a public forum...but having seen you accuse Ikkle of hypocirsy I can't keep quiet any longer.

Amy, if you these boards make you so upset, if they make you cry, if you have a life outside of this and are busy....WHY WHY are you paying so much money for them ? I love this place, I've been coming here every day for five years, but lets be honest, the rot has set in. This place is full of hypocrites, sicophantic worshipers, people who need some serious help ( and yes DDfans, I'm talking to you)...oops, Strike 1 for me ! ah, who cares. If you want the boards to be a certain way, I suggest you use your banning abilities and start re-building the community you want from fresh. I have seen people try to start good discussion threads, to analyse and debate. It is 9 times out of ten over run with either 'dog and moronica ' crap or nastiness.

I'm done. Ikkle is a friend of mine, i respect her and admire her and hate to see her implicated in this mess when all she was trying to do is the very best for this board and for Amy. She isn't the reason I am done with these boards. Anyone with any integrity has already left. P****ing contest over. What is most sad is that you've lost a good person, the best...you now don't have any other moderators.

What a damn shame, especially considering the show is almost over and we're facing the final furlong. I've met some fantastic people here, and for that Amy I am extremley thankful.

Oh, and parting gift Amy, Mark can say it much better than I can..go here for a list of people who have left because of the hypocirsy and nastiness of this place:

http://www.xfilesuk.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=5&topic=1159

Its your call, I hope whatever you do ultimately makes you happier, as its clear you're not right now.

__________________
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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:16 PM
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guadamen
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Bs. As.
Posts: 607

quote:
Originally posted by UCFGuardgirl


So just know that I am but one person, but these boards have touched me. I wouldn't still come here if I didn't enjoy coming here. If nothing else, Amy (and Ikkle, too--don't think I'm letting you off the hook here ) know that your efforts and hard work have made these boards one of the highlights of my XF watching (and, in a way, my RL as well.)

In short, thank you.



I want to second that FWIW. And your list about "things I enjoy about these boards" too (I'm also adding the DD folder and Polly in the list )

Guada

__________________
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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:24 PM
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Renata
Cockeyed Optimist

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 327

quote:
Originally posted by Vicki

What I see here is you pointing a finger at Ikkle.



I don't think so, quite honestly. God knows, I haven't agreed with all of Unbound's opinions (although I realize that since I've posted so little on the subject, you all have no reason to know whether I do or not!). But I didn't see anything like that. I saw exactly what he said: that there is a perception problem with regards to how some posters see the rules are enforced by the moderators. I don't think anyone can honestly state otherwise.
I read Unbound's post as simply a reminder that the perception problem exists, and a suggestion to ikkle and Amy to do their very best to enforce the rules evenhandedly, so as to minimize the possibility that that perception can be reasonably held. I think that's a valid suggestion.

On the other hand, I do recognize that in some ways, ikkle and Amy (and especially ikkle, since she doesn't have the advantage of being the board owner) can't win. If they chastise or punish a poster who happens to be pro-DD, anti-S9, it always seems that one or two people who also hold those opinions come forward and claim favoritism on behalf of the pro-RP, pro-S9 people. And then the reverse is likewise true. So maybe Unbound's suggestion should be paired with a plea for understanding on the part of those who might be inclined to take offense at moderators' actions. Recognize that ikkle and Amy are doing their level best to moderate this place fairly and without bias. Recognize that the job is darn near impossible in the first place. And if an issue arises when the moderators might have been unfair, try to bring it up in a manner that doesn't incite further resentment and hostility.

For what it's worth, I think ikkle and Amy are both doing a fairly decent job at their impossible task, and what else can we ask for? I hope ikkle stays on, and I hope Amy can find the good that's in the boards, because it is there.

Nancy

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:27 PM
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Vicki
GANut

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 3471

quote:
Originally posted by Unbound I
I truly hope she doesn't do that. I don't believe that will solve anything. I agree, we all share a responsibility in what has transpired on these boards of late. When I was a moderator, I was probably too lax with some things. I made some mistakes and I'm willing to admit that. People pointed fingers at me too Vicki, and if I'm not mistaken yours was sometimes one of them.

I am not blaming Ikkle. I am talking about a perception that exists about the Haven, a perception Sean agrees with as well. There are reasons why people don't want to come here. We know that. Whatever problems exist here are ones a whole lot of people share responsibility for, myself included. All I'm trying to say is that we are a community, we can work together to make this a more enjoyable place the remainder of the season.

Will this be Nirvana? I doubt it. But it can be a wonderful place for everyone to come and hang out. However, I really think the first step to making this a better place is understanding what the problems are and trying to correct them. Amy has pointed out the p****g battle that's been going on for awhile and that's one that should easily have been stopped by now. I think most of us are intelligent enough to understand why things have gotten somewhat bitter of late. And if we're smart enough to see the problems, it should be pretty darn easy to avoid them in the future.

That's really all I'm trying to say.

Unbound I



The only thing I have left to say is this:

1) Amy I know we have had our share of problems but do not ever forget that I am truely grateful to you & your site & your message boards. For allowing me to be part of this community & making some damn great friends in the process. Everything you have ever put into your site & your boards has been greatly appreciated by me even though I have caused problems for you in the past...I admire you so much for sticking to it.

2) Unbound, with due respect, maybe it's time for you to get off of your pedestal now.

3) Swonky your post was spot on, ICAM with you on just about every single point you made! Thank you!

4) Ikkle you are a true friend whom I met at the old Haven board "back in the day" of cruising on the SS Spoiler Board, sunday morning coffee's, requesting songs from SLS Da DJ, Iona's spoiling us to no end.
I adore you, your bravery, your wonderful sense of humor, your being able to be impartial and for bieng my friend. Thank you

__________________
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" Done, done, done. How do you roll this thing? "

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:29 PM
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Renata
Cockeyed Optimist

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 327

quote:
Originally posted by Theef
Does this mean that the spoilers in question have been verified to your satisfaction?


I think her post implied that they *haven't* been. She said that she would have deleted only the spoiler links and spoiler discussion from your thread, but it was too much to handle, so she had to get rid of the whole thing.

She wanted you to feel free to re-start the thread on the original subject, without the spoilers.

Nancy
(hoping to clarify, and *pretty* sure she got it right)

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Marion Zimmer Bradley, _Witchlight_

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:37 PM
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Vicki
GANut

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 3471

quote:
Originally posted by Renata
I don't think so, quite honestly. God knows, I haven't agreed with all of Unbound's opinions (although I realize that since I've posted so little on the subject, you all have no reason to know whether I do or not!). But I didn't see anything like that. I saw exactly what he said: that there is a perception problem with regards to how some posters see the rules are enforced by the moderators. I don't think anyone can honestly state otherwise.
I read Unbound's post as simply a reminder that the perception problem exists, and a suggestion to ikkle and Amy to do their very best to enforce the rules evenhandedly, so as to minimize the possibility that that perception can be reasonably held. I think that's a valid suggestion.



Nancy



Nancy, I appreaciate your words in response to that portion of my post you quoted, I really do. I just to do not see it the way you do and do not think I will :(

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" Done, done, done. How do you roll this thing? "

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:41 PM
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Amy
Administrator

Registered: Nov 2001
Location:
Posts: 235

So nice that Mark thinks I lack "integrity."

I love that, it's classic.

All I've tried to do for the last two years is provide a forum where BOTH sides can express their thoughts. I will not pick a side, becuase I honestly don't believe one is right or wrong.

I've said along with Ikkle that if both sides are complaining, at least we know we're doing it right, becuase then we truly have the middle group. As far as I'm concerned it's easier to pick a side and always stick to that, but that's not what integrity is. Integrity, to me, is doing what in your heart feels right. And, for me, that was to have both sides supported where I can.

I honestly feel both sides have behaved badly and as a result, I have lost every friend but one I have had in this fandom.

I think there can be a lot of good, but I don't think it can happen here.

I am keeping the fanfic boards, the collage board, a shipper board and a spoiler board, a GA board and a David board. That's all I want to focus on and that's all I'm going to focus on.

All other boards are going. Please spread the word.

Amy

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:42 PM
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arcadia
He's lickalicious

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 5307

quote:
Originally posted by Theef
Personally I think ikkle does a great job.She certainly has more patience and understanding then I would in the same situation.As for as the issues surrounding this board-I think there is a bunch of WHINING going on,and it makes me want to puke.All this crying to Amy crap is a disgrace.Is this board THAT important,that you have to disrupt a person's life to complain?I appreciate all that Amy has done to provide this forum-but come on people,it's JUST entertainment!!!!Show some restraint and act like an adult.If you don't like a poster-ignore them,if you don't like a thread-exit and don't return-if you feel like you're going to burst-turn your computer off and go for a walk.I also think some perspective is in order.This place is cliquish.People here are in roving bands that stick to together.Find a group you "fit in" with-and be done with it.No one is going to change anyone's mind here.Roll with the punches-and laugh it off if things get hairy.That's what I do.


Thank you!

I think we all should be grateful that Amy is providing and paying for these boards with her own hard earned money. As I think we've all come to learn bandwidth ain't cheap. But jeesh, just reading how she's inundated with threads being mailed to her and the PMs, it just seems rather ridiculous. No one is going to agree with a poster 100% of the time on these boards or in RL. So what if someone doesn't agree with someone's POV. If everyone agreed, how interesting would that be?

__________________
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My special thanks to David Duchovny. Your talent has always inspired me-without YOUR
"Mulder" there would be no "Scully." ~ GA

"Yeah, baby what?" Jake ~ RSD

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Old Post 03-20-2002 04:42 PM
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SF LADY
Guest

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:
Originally posted by Vicki


The only thing I have left to say is this:

1) Amy I know we have had our share of problems but do not ever forget that I am truely grateful to you & your site & your message boards. For allowing me to be part of this community & making some damn great friends in the process. Everything you have ever put into your site & your boards has been greatly appreciated by me even though I have caused problems for you in the past...I admire you so much for sticking to it.

2) Unbound, with due respect, maybe it's time for you to get off of your pedestal now.

3) Swonky your post was spot on, ICAM with you on just about every single point you made! Thank you!

4) Ikkle you are a true friend whom I met at the old Haven board "back in the day" of cruising on the SS Spoiler Board, sunday morning coffee's, requesting songs from SLS Da DJ, Iona's spoiling us to no end.
I adore you, your bravery, your wonderful sense of humor, your being able to be impartial and for bieng my friend. Thank you



Vicki, feel free to take your own advice about pedastels.

SF LADY
Go NINERS (2003)
Proud Member of Theef's Cyber Posse (West Coast Division)
And all the rest

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